Ep 2 YNR AtomicHabits edited
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[00:00:00]
Kirsten: We are live. We are live. Welcome to our first podcast.
Stacey: Yay. Okay, awesome. So if you haven't been here before, there is an intro episode we recorded to try and tell you who we are. But a very quick summary is that we are two women who are taking charge of our own destinies and wanna tell you how to do the same thing through some of the amazing books that we've read that helped us get where we're going.
Kirsten: Mm-hmm.
Stacey: I am Stacy Ishman. I am a career coach for academic physicians. I'm a real estate investor. I'm a mom, I'm a partner, I'm a friend, and I have this side job as a CMO of an insurance company. And this is my compatriot, Kirsten, who's gonna introduce herself.
Kirsten: Yeah, I'm Kirsten Bombdiggity, and yes, that is my true legal name changed after a divorce that I wanted to get the stank off of my name and identity. I am [00:01:00] also a mom. I am also a partner. I am a coach. I do life transformation identity coaching. So when people are ready to step into the next favorite version of themselves, we figure out a fun way to make that and we integrate lots of play and we just have a ball doing it. So that's what I do. I also work with some companies as their fractional chief experience officer. So, here we are and one of the things that Stacy and I both have in common is that we like to completely nerd out over books and so for our inaugural episode, we decided to go with Atomic Habits.
And one of the things that's important about Atomic Habits is showing up and making space for versions of it. And so when Stacey and I were talking about how we wanted this to grow, one of the habits that is really powerful, just little itty bitty actions can make the biggest difference. And one of those is acknowledging our wins.
So I think that's definitely something that we're excited about incorporating into our routine of coming here for every episode. So, Stacy, I'm gonna start with you and just be like, Hey, what went well? What rocked for you this [00:02:00] week?
Stacey: So I, just launched a midterm rental. In fact, I launched four units and one's by the room, so like six listings.
Four of them have people in them who are happy and doing well, and I'm learning a ton of all the things, and if anybody is doing real estate out there, do not launch six at the same time. I do not recommend it.
Kirsten: I think you need to tell people who maybe don't even know what a midterm rental is, what that is.
Stacey: Oh, that is when you rent something between like 30 days or more. So it's not like a lease that you do for a year
Kirsten: and it's furnished
Stacey: and it's not like Airbnb, which you usually do for less than,
Kirsten: Yeah,
Stacey: 30. So, basically I'm doing real estate and always
Kirsten: And it's always furnished typically, right?
Stacey: Yeah. And they're furnished and I bit off a lot and I have chewed most of it.
How does that sound? Sounds wrong. Anyway, no, that part's going really well and quite honestly, Kirsten and I have been excited to get this going so. Finding a good time that fit for both of us to jump in. There's probably dogs in the background. There's a rabbit literally chewing something under my feet.
There's a lawnmower. [00:03:00] So, please excuse imperfect. 'cause that's the other thing I'm really proud of is starting something imperfect. So, Kristen, how about you?
Kirsten: I totally agree about the perfection. In the book that I wrote that came out last October, one of the things that I said was that, perfection is just, procrastination in a tuxedo.
And so, we don't wear a lot of tuxedos or formal ball gowns, not that we wouldn't rock the heck out of a sequin, but yeah. So I think that my big win for the week is I just returned recently from the, Astoria Conference where I'm doing a certification for narrative intelligence I got to go down to Nashville for the first time and I stayed in this amazingly, wonderfully, beautifully tacky hotel called the Graduate and it was an homage to Dolly and all things wonderful.
And so I got to sleep with a portrait of Dolly above my head, and I don't know what could-
Stacey: Dolly Parton?
Kirsten: Dolly Parton. It wasn't live Dolly though it was a portrait. But it was enough to make me feel closer to her and feel like she was really, backing me up in every dream that I've ever had. So that was amazing.
Got to meet lots of people and, especially living in a pretty [00:04:00] virtual world, it was nice to have that human contact. So I'm gonna celebrate that.
Stacey: Okay, so why don't you
Kirsten: You wanna get into some atomic habits? Go ahead.
Stacey: Yeah, why don't you kick us off. Talk to us about what you think the big message is from James Clear's Atomic Habits.
Kirsten: Yep. So, it's basically about how to build good habits, ditch the bad ones, and I just love how practical it is, so the whole system kind of boils down to four simple concepts. Like you wanna make it obvious. You know, like put your running shoes by the door. Apparently, if you do that running thing, let's make it obvious.
And then there's make it attractive, so that it looks like it's fun to do and then make it easy so that you're reducing any kind of friction. And then, make it satisfying. So you get those rewards right away. It came out in 2018, it's been translated into 50 different languages. It was on the New York Times bestseller list for over 200 weeks, so that was pretty amazing.
I learned that when we were planning this out, and I just think it's really changed how a lot of [00:05:00] people have approached personal development over the last decade or so.
Stacey: Can you give us an example?
Kirsten: What about you?
Stacey: No, no. I wanna hear an example. So from those four laws: obvious, attractive,
Kirsten: Yeah.
Stacey: easy and satisfying. What's an example of a habit that you think has used at least one, if not multiple of those?
Kirsten: Well, I think the biggest thing for me is the make it easy, like as a coach, there's a gazillion life coaches out there, transformation coaches out there. And for me, I just really wanted that importance of play and silliness.
So we know that when we're looking at the neurolinguistics of brain patterns that it takes 200 repeat- if you're trying to get a new pattern in your brain, 200 times of repeating that in order to kinda lock and load it. But if you're integrating play, it's only 10 or 15 times.
So for me, when I was figuring out how do I help people kind of step into that transformation. It had to include play, so that's why like there's scratch off cards and there's prizes and there's medals and it's just kind of this silly fun way, but it really just fast [00:06:00] tracks everything so that people can really be like, yeah, that is who I am, because ultimately.
If we have a dream , if we have an identity where we're like, yeah, I am that person. What we're looking for is strong evidence, good evidence, feel good, yummy evidence that says, yeah, that's who I am. And people just need help trying to figure out how to find that evidence.
Stacey: Well, usually I talk about 21 days, to make a habit, right?
Kirsten: Mm-hmm.
Stacey: And I think your examples a good one, that if you make it obvious, satisfying, easy, attractive, you can cut by like 90% the amount of time it takes to build a habit. So , that's one of those things I got from the book. I'm gonna say, I'm probably gonna give you a few more details because I'm maybe nerdier than you are, or anal. I don't know one of those, but
Kirsten: I'm more ADHD and you're more attention to detail.
That's it, that's all.
Stacey: Sure, sure. I'm a surgeon. You should have hopefully some attention to detail in that case.
Kirsten: You do not want me in your nose and throat , so
Stacey: We're not going there Anyway, so things that I really liked, was the [00:07:00] idea of habit stacking, and I think you sort of alluded to it, we put things together. So I liked the idea that if you could add those things together.
So an example I give that's a medical example is when I want people to use a nose spray, I actually have them sit it on the counter so it's obvious. I have them actually put it next to their toothbrush. So it's easy, they know when to use it. I dunno if I can make it satisfying, but if you can breathe better, I think that's satisfying.
So, you know, there's different examples of that and I can tell you in some of the things that I do, trying to make sure, I fill out my planner every day and I love it. I actually love it, but It's sitting next to my bed. I picked one that's pretty, that I like. It's easy because I have it planned in my schedule and I find it super satisfying 'cause I get the dopamine hit of checking off the box and I dunno about you. I'm the person who makes the box if it's not on my list.
Kirsten: Oh, I love, I love a paper planner. When you write something down though? Like I will write something down even if I just did it, just so I can make sure that I get to give myself credit for that.
Stacey: That's what I'm talking about. Yeah. [00:08:00]
Kirsten: And like last week when we got together, you were in Indianapolis where I live and you had forgotten your planner.
When you build in those techniques and then you have a system that doesn't align with that , that had to be putting you on the wackadoodle train.
Stacey: It kind of did. So what I realized though is my old system was to just write it down in a different format. So I just used a piece of paper. It turns out that still works. So that's the other important thing, is to have a backup plan. The other thing I liked about this book, was identity based habits and what I liked is the shift from outcomes to identity. This fits very much with what Kirsten works on, which is instead of, I wanna lose weight, I'm the kind of person who works out.
So it's changing your identity to go to the outcome you care about, but it really changes it because if I don't work out today, it's not because I'm a bad person and I didn't do what I was supposed to do, it's that, oh, I have to just jump back on that train 'cause I'm still the kind of person who works out.
I just didn't get to do it today. And so that's sort of a vote for the person that you want to become. And I liked that about this and I would love to hear sort of how you [00:09:00] incorporate that idea.
Kirsten: Well, I think about like when I think the identity stuff that you're talking about, I mean like people who have shame or guilt or whatever it is about money, right?
That seems to be a common theme no matter how successful you are, that, that's not something that you're taught in medical school. It's not something that I was taught as a teacher and a principal. But when we are claiming a new identity, it's not like we have to immediately jump into that identity.
We can start with very small things. Like, okay, so if I was a badass with money, what's something that I would be doing that maybe I'm not doing now? And you just find little pieces that you can piecemeal together, and then you're doing that, and then maybe you're like, oh, you know, like I, I did do that.
And it's just your brain, is not designed, it really doesn't give a crap about your happiness. It's never there for like, yeah, let's make Stacy and Kirsten happy. No, our brains only exist to keep us safe. And so a lot of that is building this evidence that makes us feel safe because then your brain wants to prove you right.
[00:10:00] So work with that brain, give it new evidence. And that's a lot of what these four steps that James talks about throughout the book does. It makes it easy to figure out where to kind of jump in, step in, and transform, and you stack these small wins.
Stacey: Well, and I think that was the other thing they talk about is 1% better every day. So I like that idea too. So I don't actually have to go from 50,000 emails. That's an exaggeration. I have 37,000 right now- to having zero.
Kirsten: Yeah, we don't wanna be dramatic. Yeah.
Stacey: What if I knocked off a hundred, I got a hundred less today than I have tomorrow, or what if I hired a VA to take care of 50,000, whatever it is that I'm gonna do, but 1% better every day is easier.
So like if you're gonna start working out, that's a great example of being like, I don't have to start with that. And actually, this is a great example of somebody I worked with yesterday. They wanted to make their clinic better. They wanted the flow to work better. They couldn't figure out what to do with new learners.
So instead of like blowing everything up, they started with, what if I just have everybody finish their note before they can see the next [00:11:00] patient? It was one change, and then we just practiced what they were gonna say. They didn't change everything in their clinic. They didn't blow up their schedule, they didn't do all that stuff.
They made one change and she sent me a text in the middle of clinic like, oh my God, it's going so much better. The flow is so much better. And then it was like, well what's the next problem? So the next week we worked on, well, I want my OR sheet to work better. So 'cause it's paper sheet and we have to write down 10 diagnoses.
And we're like, well, what if you had one by condition or what if you wrote it down? So she made one change to that sheet. And if you do 10 of those things, you've made your life 10% better or maybe more depending on how those make a difference, but you don't have to make 10 of them today. I really liked that too.
And they can compound on each other. So yeah, my clinic's 30, 50% better from these three changes. What can I do with the next one?
Kirsten: Just looking at some of those hacks. The book, I don't know if you remember like 20 years ago, 30 years ago, there was a book that was like, eat this, not that, and it was the same kind of concept, you know?
How can you find little bitty tweaks to do that?
Stacey: They talk about focusing on systems, not goals. [00:12:00] So almost everybody has the same goals, right? Like if we all say, I wanna be successful at my career, I wanna get promoted. The difference lies in how we get there.
And so that's where a lot of these habits come into play is coming up with a system that's gonna get you as opposed to just having an aspiration. And for me, honestly, just writing out a plan for the day, even if I don't succeed at all of them, but picking three things every day. Really helps because I was, before I had a list of like 150 things, which meant I probably got none of them done.
But if I'm like, what are the three I can do today? At the end of the day when I'm brain dead, I can at least be like, oh, here's an email I could do towards that. Most of the things you have to do are not like I have to, you know, paint the Mona Lisa. It's that I have to buy paint. I have to order the paint.
You know, and so doing one step every day towards your big goals instead of getting stuck in all the little stuff was the other big thing I like to pull from this.
Kirsten: Yeah, I think that even just calling it systems sometimes can make people get in their own way [00:13:00] too. And so just challenging yourself.
'cause for some of us, like an ADH person, like myself saying systems, it could be a term of empowerment or it could be a trigger of fear. So lean into what your emotions are. Pay attention to that. Stacy and I talked, you went to UPW this year at Tony Robbins conference, and you were talking about, you know, feelings, which is something that you realized that you didn't have a lot of habit in naming.
And so that's another thing that, like in my kit, I include like a decal that has a feelings wheel on it. And I encourage everyone because sometimes, like me, I suck at being mad, but I really excel at being sad. And what I had someone help me connect the dots on, was that like sad bodyguards my anger , and I've known plenty of people where anger bodyguard their sadness. And so a lot of it is realizing what feels good , and ultimately all the stuff that is in atomic habits is all about pursuing what feels good and figuring out how to tweak it so that it's going through the funnest, most ridiculous feel [00:14:00] good cycle or system or process or whatever it is that, that you're creating.
So. Um, you know, setting yourself up for success. If Stacy knows that she's gonna go to do a yoga class, which is a pretty new adventure in your world, um, you know, what are some of the things that, that you do that so that you don't blow off the class?
Stacey: So one is, I keep the yoga mat in my car, so I have to look at it. Two, is I make sure I put the clothes on like at the beginning of the day. That makes me feel stupid if I don't work out. 'cause I'm wearing like workout tights and I'm like, oh, I use those to go to the supermarket and buy a cake, which is, you know, that might've happened too, but um, the other thing is I have selected a yoga studio that charges me if I do not cancel within 12 hours.
And I hate paying somebody not to work out. So it is actually really good to make me do it, and it was the same that I did before I was doing yoga. I work at another studio called Orangetheory, [00:15:00] which I love. They charge $12 for me not to work out. If I don't cancel within eight hours, it's just the right amount of money to make me too cheap to be like, I'm not paying you $12 to not work out.
So that is honestly a good motivation for me.
Kirsten: Yep. I have the same with my Peloton membership, you know, it's a little blue dot that I get on my little tracker every day. And you can do that with a mindfulness exercise. You can do it with a boxing mat, you can do it on a bike ride, whatever it is.
But getting that blue dot is definitely a dopamine hit for me that I know that I'm just like the little kid that's being potty trained. It's like, yeah, I went potty, like put it up, gimme the sticker.
Stacey: The other important thing though, right, is if you miss one, 'cause that happens is to just never miss two in a row.
Kirsten: Yep.
Stacey: So people are human. You're gonna miss something, something goes crazy, you get sick, whatever it is. But just make sure you jump back on the horse. Just because you stop once or miss one doesn't mean the habit's over.
And that is a huge [00:16:00] difference too. It's being like, okay, I only wore my workout tights to buy a cake and tomorrow I'm gonna make sure I actually go and work out.
Kirsten: Yeah, and then maybe you're looking for different pieces of evidence. So this month I thought I was gonna work out 30 days and you know what? I worked out 18 and that was a streak of, you know, 17 more than I had ever before.
So celebrate that, you know, stop looking like there's another book that I'm sure we'll cover 'cause we're both obsessed with it as the gap in the gain. You know, if, if you have a goal to lose a hundred pounds and you've lost 90. Um, so many people are just dialed in on that last 10 and just berate themselves if they happen to find an Oreo in their mouth, you know, like when instead, like, why not celebrate that 90 pounds?
Like that is a huge accomplishment, but identity wise, it's so common that we're just focusing on what's left before we hit that imaginary finish line that we came up with ourselves.
Stacey: Yeah, no, I love it. Um, yeah, I will say that I, maybe we should talk about the gap in the gain next [00:17:00] week because I think that has been fundamental for me for really thinking about changes.
Kirsten: Sure.
Stacey: And honestly, I think this habit stacking idea is probably one of the best things that helped me work my way through some of the, so many of these other things we're gonna end up talking about. So I'm gonna highly encourage everybody to read Atomic Habits. The other thing I'm gonna tell you, if you have a problem like me where you feel like you have to read the whole book, Kirsten doesn't have this.
She's fine with like reading the half that's good for her and being done. Um, but this book
Kirsten: I'm also fine reading like 12 books at one time and I just figure it's like the universe guiding me. Like, this is the chapter you're supposed to read today. Find your purpose in it. And then I don't feel bad about rereading them, you know?
So, yeah.
Stacey: But I'll tell you this book, I think every chapter you could almost read independently and get something really useful from. So that's the other thing I liked about it is I didn't feel this huge need to have read like 200 pages to find doing something useful. So I do recommend the book. I don't listen to books.
It might be great to listen to. Do you listen to them? [00:18:00]
Kirsten: I do not.
Stacey: We are not audio people.
Kirsten: I think it's amazing that people do. Right. No, we're not. But I love some of the recap, I forget the name of the service that it'll like, give me the summary then too and, oh yeah, that was from that book.
'cause sometimes I'm like, oh, I don't know who to give credit for, you know. The other thing I wanna make sure before we wrap up this episode is that, just the importance of environment in general. So like you had talked about having the thing in your car or you know, the yoga mat in your car or having your daily trip.
I think anything that helps you feel that identity, that feel, that supports that habit, that that's really important. And so, um. You know, whatever that looks like, what does clean look like? What does organized, what does rested, what does a person who feels like they own their phone instead of their phone owning them?
Like, how are we changing our environments to align with these identities?
Stacey: There was two more things I wanted to say. One is, I have this mistake of like trying to start 15 habits at the same time. I am doing a training program with Michael Hyatt, and they really emphasize only [00:19:00] one new habit. They actually say per month or per quarter.
So it is a new concept for me, and I realized like I was gonna gonna try and sleep more. I am gonna, um, drink like infrequently or like less or none or something. I'm gonna, um,
Kirsten: We're talking alcohol, not water, right?
Stacey: No, water good. Less alcohol,
Kirsten: water good water good
Stacey: um, but I'm just, I had like five things that I was gonna do.
I'm gonna do all these things. I'm gonna start yoga, which I did do. But I'm gonna do it four times a week, and like, whatever the number was. And it turns out I, it's too hard to focus on that many different things at once, even though it's great. If that was my full-time job, I could probably do it, but I have another one.
So, um, I really would emphasize to people maybe one or two things at a time. We talk about habit stacking. But maybe just add one so that you, like, if you already brush your teeth, which I hope you do, um, then add something. You know, like that's why I was like, add the medicine to that. But my first question to all those kids is.
Do you brush your teeth? Because if they don't, this is not habit stacking. [00:20:00] So then they have to like not look at their mom and be like, not in the morning. I don't do in the morning. And I'm like, okay, take it at night. So for me, don't do too many things at once was really useful. If I really wanna focus on making sure I always get to yoga, then I have to stop worrying about all the other stuff.
And maybe that's gravy. Um, so that was the other big thing.
Kirsten: For people like me who feel pulled in a different direction, pick your favorite three and then kind of try 'em all out. Like, like you would try on in a dressing room. You know, saying that you need to pick one is very valuable and it will give you some traction, but maybe you're not at a point where you're ready to take that, like, monogamous relationship commitment, in which case just date. Date different new ideas.
You know, figure out which ones feel good, and then pick one from there.
Stacey: And the way to do it isn't always clear, right? Like, so the way for me to get six hours of sleep, I thought was for me to have like a later wake up time. It turns out it's to have an alarm for my bedtime, which I just started doing this week and have been much more successful.
So I listen to Dan Martell and he is like, don't worry about when you get up, worry about when you go [00:21:00] to bed. That makes a lot of sense. So I just go to bed earlier now to get my six hours of sleep instead of trying to get up late.
Kirsten: He's got a great book we also definitely need to talk about too soon.
Stacey: Yes.
So, so our plan next week I think is to talk about The Gap and The Gain. Okay. We're gonna have up episodes on The Gap and The Gain, Who Not How, and Buy Back Your Time.
So those three we mentioned today, 'cause clearly they're having a huge impact. We wanna thank you so much for joining us today. If you have books you wanna hear about, please let us know. This is Your New Release where we talk about story shifts and the books that change us. And Kirsten, how should people let us know if there's something they want us to talk about or they wanna give us feedback?
Kirsten: My LinkedIn is the easiest way to get ahold of me. But I'm also on Facebook, so we'll have to put all of our contact information. I'm sure we both have Link tree kind of things too that we can share in the various places that we share this. So.
Stacey: Perfect. And I'm also on LinkedIn
Kirsten: We both have like complimentary consultations too. I believe so. I know, [00:22:00] right? Don't you have some kind of get together and talk with people if they have questions?
Stacey: I do. And actually, if you don't mind, tell us, just tell us one minute. What do you offer? What people have 30 minute consultations?
Is there something else?
Kirsten: Um, that's really where it starts because my goal is to help you be more like you and I don't know what that is unless I get to hear what you're dreaming about. So I call it the Dream Out Loud session. It's a 30 minute consult and it's a hundred percent free and we just kind of dream a little dream and have a great time.
And I just keep being curious and asking questions and then we go from there. And if it decides that that could lead to something where we could work together, nifty. And if it doesn't, then, you know, listen to the podcast. Connect with Stacy, go to yoga, play with your dog, whatever it is, you know, like, let's do it.
How about you?
Stacey: I also have a 30 minute discovery call. Usually it results in either, I have a women's accelerator group coaching program. I have one-on-one coaching. I'm working with departments, which I'm super excited about, to really help with the whole department learn and grow and build their careers.
And [00:23:00] then I have an academic kickstarter course, which is for faculty in their first five years of practice or in residents who wanna set up their career the way they want it to go from the start.
Kirsten: Ooh. And then the other piece is we talked about connecting with us if there's a book you want us to cover, but I also wanna mention that there were lots of people that I connected with in Nashville who are authors themselves.
So if you have a book that has recently come out or is going to be coming out, or maybe came out a year ago and nobody noticed and you just want to give it some space, like, we would love to invite you to join us in our podcast and be a guest on Your New Release.
Stacey: Okay. Well we were a little bit longer than we meant to be.
We're trying to keep these somewhere in that like 20 to 25 minute range, but. We're so excited to be talking to you guys today. So we look forward to talking to you next week.
Kirsten: Progress not perfection. So we'll see you soon.
Stacey: Bye-bye.
