Ep04 YNR GapAndTheGain final
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Stacey: Hello and welcome back to Your New Release: Stories, Shifts and the Books that Change Us. I'm trying a dramatic reading this time. Lemme know what you think.
Kirsten: Well, I think it's because your book copy is from the library. You know,
Stacey: Well, it was originally, but I did not steal it from the library. I purchased it. I reused the book.
Kirsten: I love the library books because then they're like wrapped in plastic, kind of like my grandma's furniture growing up.
Stacey: Do you think they lied to me? Because this one's not wrapped in plastic.
Kirsten: Oh, well sometimes they just get like regular covers.
Stacey: I got the cheap library version.
Kirsten: Don't judge a book by the cover. I just made that up. Can you believe it?
Stacey: I love it. You know, I just judge a book by 'nobody else highlighted it but me'. That's really what it's about.
Kirsten: That's what I look for when I'm on Amazon and I'm buying. Like what is it? Is it very good condition? And so, who knew that we were gonna have a whole podcast just about the quality of [00:01:00] used books that we buy and whether or not you should be doing a Kindle or like, you know-
Stacey: Ooh, that could be a good episode. We're gonna have to work on that.
Kirsten: Yeah, I'm a paper girl. I understand that a lot of the personal development books, it's really nice to have the search feature, but oh my gosh, I just feel like I'm using my brain cells to a higher level of purpose when I have paper in my hands.
I just can't help it.
Stacey: Well, I'm gonna say, it never occurred to me the search option would've made my life better until you literally just said it. So now I'm like, should I be getting them that way? But I really do like a book.
Kirsten: I'm sure there's somebody listening to this who's like, you guys. I have the best hack, the best of both worlds because when you highlight it takes it into a database and it blah, blah, blah. I'm sure there's something out there. So let us know what it is because we all grow together.
Stacey: Yes, please, please help us. Okay.
We're bringing books back again. But can you tell us in your eloquent way, I want you to talk about how The Gap and The Gain transformed your career, and your mindset.
Kirsten: Oh, well, we [00:02:00] gotta tell people what the book's about if they've never even heard of it.
Stacey: Okay, start with that.
Kirsten: Okay. So this book is fabulous because there are so many of us who have recovering perfectionistic things going on in our world, and we haven't quite figured that all out. And so The Gap and The Gain is truly about like, focus on how far you've come, sister instead of the little amount that you had left.
And like the easiest thing is always to think about if somebody's, you know, wanting to lose like a hundred pounds, right? And they've lost 90 pounds, like our brains are automatically wired to be like, well, what about the last 10, instead of just celebrating the F out of our 90 pounds that we have completely rocked our socks off with. And so it's really important that we step into that light. So that's what this whole book's about is like, Hey, how do we kind of set ourselves up to be our own cheerleader so we can tell our brain, which is looking for safety, which is looking for what's missing, which is looking for survival mode.
Like how do we tell to shut up? And kind of just step into this like amazing, miraculous self and I just, I think it's so important that we do that. So I'm sure I'm missing [00:03:00] really critical components of this book and I would love to hear what they are, Stacy.
Stacey: Okay, well I feel like that was fantastic and you know that I'm just super anal and I have a lot more details.
But I would like to say one of the things I like thinking about is how do you know you're in the gap? So when you are coaching people, and you coach about identity, there's probably a lot of people who are sitting in the gap. How do you help them identify that they're in the gap?
Kirsten: I think it's really funny that we're talking about the gap and what first came to mind was like, it's in the 'but' you know, like the gap's in the 'but' because anytime you're trying to get people to celebrate their life or their accomplishments or their gain and they're like, 'but'. See where I went with that?
Stacey: I was not really sure what 'but' you were going with.
Kirsten: You never know with me, right? So I think it's when people are busy putting on disclaimers or discrediting themselves or dismissing it or shrinking or whatever it is.
I think it's really important that we step into that. I think that's true though for a lot of people, especially people who go into medicine, right? They [00:04:00] are taught to just be aggressive, be-e aggressive, like be assertive, chase that goal. And if, for example, you stopped to smell the roses and celebrate how far you've come, there's almost this like self-destructive fear that you're going to let yourself off the hook and not give yourself grace. When truthfully, even if that is how you are hardwired, brain chemistry says, no, we're looking for evidence. So the more you can celebrate that evidence, you're actually setting yourself up to project even further to get even more credit. So making sure that you're celebrating that gain is really, in the end, going to make it a win-win situation.
Stacey: No, I totally agree. And I do think if you're succeeding, like if you could point to your CV and say, I wrote six papers and I gave three talks, or I gave one paper and one talk or whatever your goals are. I saw 47 patients in a day and did 807 surgeries last week. Whatever it is.
But [00:05:00] oftentimes we'll say like, oh, but Joe did more, or Stacy published more papers. The whole point is if you have that feeling of imposter syndrome or burnout, I think especially if you're sitting there, you probably are doing some negative comparisons and not appreciating the things that you have absolutely accomplished and you can take in.
But it could be as simple as just feeling like chronically dissatisfied. Like, this is not working, I'm not enjoying this. Start looking at what you've accomplished, it really helps you, especially if it's the things you wanna accomplish.
Kirsten: And you talk about comparing your insides to other people's outsides, when it isn't just a race, it's a full blown on algorithm.
Right? So for some people it's gonna be. You know, the number of papers written, the number of patients helped, helping your parent age successfully, being able to go to your children's games. There's all these invisible pieces of the algorithm that you're the only one that gets to decide what really matters.
But if you're comparing that one little arm to the one where somebody else has a higher number, you really are discounting. It's like a game of Jenga, [00:06:00] right? If in the end you have this beautiful tower, you can't just be like, this piece of wood does not serve me and throw it out. Because then the whole freaking tower crumbles. You cannot be grateful and just keep going without being grateful for every single stupid little piece of wood that's in that beautiful freaking tower of yours.
Stacey: Yeah, no, I totally agree. And I think many of us forget to celebrate getting the little Jenga piece out each time. Right? I didn't actually have to win the whole game. Like that move was good, you know, that collaboration, that conversation was good. It could be the building blocks for whatever you're gonna turn it into, which could be your first senior author paper, or the first time you got asked to run rounds.
Like there's work that went into all those steps, and if you could enjoy them along the way, that's also the journey that makes this life much more fun. That's one of those things I also love from this book.
Kirsten: It's evidence, it's literally like scaffolding that helps us climb higher.
So you've seen the Jenga where [00:07:00] there's a few little pieces on the bottom, like the stronger that foundation is, the better . And it's important that we acknowledge how uncomfortable do we get when other people celebrate us. So often we are hardwired be like. Oh, that's okay. Oh, this shirt is pretty? I got it for $3 at Goodwill, like, whatever. Instead of just saying, you know what, thank you. You know. Thank you.
Stacey: Did you get that shirt for $3 at Goodwill?
Kirsten: I did not, no. But , I wore it at the eclipse.
Stacey: Okay. I did not get an eclipse outfit unless we count the black tshirt that I wear every day.
Kirsten: Your ensembles are universal. See?
Stacey: Oh, I like how we said that.
Kirsten: Yeah.
Stacey: I actually used to think that I was just lazy until I realized Steve Jobs also only just wore black turtleneck every day, so he didn't have to think about what he was wearing.
I do not think I'm like Steve Jobs, but I do think I'm too lazy to pick out a different outfit and so I literally wear this shirt with-
Kirsten: Yeah, but I don't think lazy necessarily. Like what If you're just efficient?
Stacey: I just don't have any interest in fashion and I don't waste any time on the decision.
Kirsten: But if we were looking at Buy [00:08:00] Back Your Time, like the last episode, right? Like deciding how you're gonna delegate and automate things. And that's all you've done is you've figured out how to automate your wardrobe.
Stacey: And the gain is that I don't have to waste any energy on something I don't care about.
Kirsten: Yeah. I'll tell you that I like dresses because then I only have to pick out one outfit. I don't have to pick out a top and a bottom. As long as it has pockets, we're done.
Stacey: Yeah. I just figure out what glasses I'm wearing that day and we're good.
Kirsten: Oh yes. Well, I am kind of obsessed about glasses and you know, because they really are a fashion accessory to me. Especially when I got old and had to move into like the trifocals. Then I was like, oh, these are gonna have to be sassy. And it's a great conversation piece, so I love having sassy glasses.
Stacey: Speaking of conversation piece, I'll give my three takeaways on this book.
Kirsten: Please do.
Stacey: Thank you. So one is living in the gap leaves you frustrated no matter how much you've achieved, because you're always looking at somebody who's done more of something, whatever the something is. Living in the gain helps you stay motivated.
It [00:09:00] builds resilience and it helps you find joy, which is the part I think, Kirsten, you have really encapsulated in your conversation. And you have a power to choose which lens you use every day, every minute. And you can do it so that you're like, oh, that was the gap. Like I fall into it, you know, I compare myself or my accomplishments or something, and then later you can be like oh, actually I did a great job.
I managed this thing, or I accomplished this other thing. Or I didn't fall into something that would be negative. So if you were gonna help people find a gain, how would you coach them to do that?
Kirsten: I think that surrounding yourself with people who call you on it when you are just these little bitty digs that you do at yourself to just, because part of it's just creating that consciousness.
And so if you surround yourself with people who kind of be like, now wait a minute, why is your wardrobe lazy just because you've made it automated? Little things like that. We don't know what we don't know. So surround yourself with people who are going to just remind you of a different way of [00:10:00] reframing stuff.
And if you find yourself being incredibly frustrated, chances are you could spend, I don't know, at least 20 seconds and come up with a better way to connect that exact same data point into something that serves you so much better. So I think that that's the Gap And The Gain is just like being conscious, be intentional and just like looking for things that surround you with gratitude and joy.
Stacey: I also think timeframe helps, right? Like if you said, where was I a month ago, or six months ago, or one year ago? Like if my goals are that I wanna write a paper this year and I have a topic picked, I've collected some data and I have a collaborator, I'm so much closer than I was a year ago.
Or, you know, if I wanna make sure, I have three really cute shirts from the Salvation Army and I've already picked up two of them. If I wanna make sure I have 14 black t-shirts.
My wife's mom was trying to figure out what to get me for Christmas. She's like, I think I should just get her a Land's End gift certificate so she [00:11:00] could just replenish her black t-shirt, which is where all of them are from. And I was like, oh, I would actually love that. So I think she thought it was kinda lazy and meanwhile I was like, that is the game man.
I would absolutely love that.
Kirsten: Well, don't we all as parents reach the point in parenthood when our kids genuinely just want gift cards? I mean that was a really hard parental rite of passage for me. But it's no different than like our homes. You were saying that when you moved into your home, where you live now, that you used some of the same art that had been in a home like multiple revolutions earlier.
And me, I'm just like, okay, what can we make a little bit more ridiculous in this corner? Like my house is always continually evolving. And I love that we find our own way of being in the gain. Like what is it that makes us feel ridiculous? And I particularly love it when we surround ourselves with people who are not threatened by our gains, who are celebrating our gains with us.
Stacey: Yeah. Because it's not like a small pot, right? Like it's an infinite [00:12:00] possibility. So even if it's like, I wanna write 45 papers, it doesn't mean you can't write 107 papers. Like my writing these 45 papers doesn't keep you from being able to accomplish whatever your goals are. If it's more, if it's less, if it's different.
And so it's not a zero sum game. And I think that's important to remember too. Even if I'm looking at you as thinking like, well, look how fabulous your backdrop is, and look how my wife said I have to edit my mantle, which apparently was gonna happen. She moved those things around and I was like, oh, thanks.
She's like, that was not editing the mantle. That was just taking the beer pong cups off the mantle, which is what she did. So that is how I've edited my mantle, but I'm looking at this as the gain.
Kirsten: And then, we're comparing what we don't know. Like off camera, my son took my bedsheet and hung it over the door because I was being blasted by the sunlight and I felt like a vampire that was getting ready to just be quenched into dust. And so, we don't know what kind of sun rays are coming in and blinding others around us. And just assuming that we're all just doing the best we can and giving each [00:13:00] other grace and giving ourselves grace. Why do we give complete strangers so much more grace than we are ever willing to give ourselves? It's so ridiculous. So the Gap And The Gain is definitely a strategy that can help you step into a more grace-filled gift for yourself.
Stacey: I'm gonna encourage you to give us one more summary of don't compare your insides to somebody else's outsides. Because I think that is so fundamental to living a life that feels good. And then I'm gonna do a wrap up. So if you don't mind just really explaining to us again, how to do that and why it's so important.
Kirsten: I would say that when I work with clients, sometimes they'll see my glasses or my energy or my ridiculousness. There are some people who see yeah, she's this great coach, but she probably wants me to be more like her. And yet I know that nothing fills my cup more than seeing people be more like them and figuring out what that is.
So just assuming [00:14:00] that you're exactly who you're supposed to be and assuming that other people want you to be exactly who you're supposed to be, and being able to amplify that light without trying to turn it into a 'be more like me'. We're not like Mean Girls, you know, we're not anything like that.
You and I, you know, believe it or not, don't dress alike. We have different hobbies, it turns out you do not enjoy cussing nearly as much as I do. Who knew? But we both love books and we love being foodies and we love just giggling over ridiculousness and not taking ourselves too seriously. So I would just say, look for the commonalities. Look for the joy that is shared rather than being worried about why I'm not enough for all these amazing people to be in my life and see and celebrate me for who I really am.
Stacey: And when you're looking at somebody, like I look at you and everyone's like, oh, she's such a happy person. Nobody sees the frustrating thing that happened or the annoying thing that happened.
Kirsten: Like today when I recorded a training video for 40 minutes with [00:15:00] no sound. Yeah, I probably needed two pieces of chocolate and I didn't have one single piece of it in the house. It was awful.
Stacey: But that's the whole point, right? We don't usually put out in the world the things that make us want to throttle somebody. Or I might've used the phrase stab somebody with a fork earlier today. That's because that's not necessarily what we put out there.
But don't think that just because you're feeling frustrated or annoyed or not as put together as somebody that it means that you're not in the same place because their outsides are not the same thing as what's going on on the inside. So I do love that you brought that up.
Kirsten: Always show up as our favorite selves.
Stacey: I am gonna wrap up today and leave you with this thought: that you're probably already much further along than you realize. And when you choose to measure your progress against where you started, not some shifting, impossible ideal, you unlock a deeper sense of success, momentum, and gratitude. So living in the gain is about lowering your standards, it's about building a stronger foundation that energizes you to keep growing without burning out.
So today we would like to challenge you to take two minutes, write down three specific ways [00:16:00] you've grown over the past three months. It could be a new project you started, a relationship you strengthened, or even a mindset shift you made or are about to make. Big or small, it all counts. So stop chasing happiness and enjoy where you're living right now and what you've accomplished.
Thank you for spending time with us today. If this episode resonated with you, please share it with a friend or a colleague who might need a reminder that they're making more progress than they realize. And as always, if you want more conversations like this, make sure you subscribe so you don't miss what's coming next.
Until next time, celebrate your gains. Keep moving forward and we will keep giving you our New Releases: Stories, Shifts, and the Books that Change Us.
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