Ep05 DivorcedAfter40 final
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Stacey: [00:00:00] Welcome back to Your New Release, the podcast where we take bold ideas from books, business and beyond. I'm Dr. Stacey Ishman: a physician, coach, and your guide to building a career you don't need to escape from. And I'm here with my friend and co-host, Kirsten Bombdiggity, who is a coach, consultant, and all-around Muppet Ninja.
She's known for helping high achievers and entrepreneurs step into the next version of their careers with clarity and confidence. We have an extra special episode because today we are diving into Divorced After 40, a book written by my amazing co-host, Kirsten F Bombdiggity. The themes in this book include starting fresh after a major transition, finding your voice again, and building a life aligned with your values. They're the same ones we wrestle with in our jobs.
So whether you're recovering from a denied promotion, redefining your focus, or navigating leadership shifts, the parallels are striking. So in today's episode, we'll share [00:01:00] a few lessons from the book and translate them into practical tips. Let's dive in. First of all, Kirsten, can you tell me the subtitle that comes after Divorced After 40?
Kirsten: Okay, so the full title is Divorced After 40: the "Blank" Yes Guide for Women Rewriting Their Second Act. I thought that it was very important that people right from the cover get an idea that I drop f-bombs comfortably and consider that just part of my branding. So not only did I put it in the title of the book, but when I had my name legally changed, I changed my middle name to just the letter F . So that when you say it fast, it says F Bombdiggity.
Stacey: And I will tell many people it is absolutely not PG rated. Did somebody go through and count the number of Fs in your book?
Kirsten: I think I did a control F, and I think there were like 107.
Stacey: Yes. So, I told somebody this story not long ago. It was not about your book, but I recommend a podcast by Leila [00:02:00] Hormozi. I don't know if you've ever listened to her stuff, but I loved the concept. It was about giving feedback, and there were so many F-bombs that they were like, I don't think I can listen to this. So I actually did my own podcast talking about the same concept with no F bombs. Zero. So if anybody listens to my podcast, there is nary a curse word. In this particular book, I actually tried to read a paragraph to my wife and she's like, what is happening?
Kirsten: I remember when I sent you an author's copy ahead of time so that I could get your honest feedback because most of the people that I work with are women doctors. Because in the work that I did with Semi-Retired Md, I learned that women doctors have forgotten how to play and to just love being human.
And they are pushed in a very different way than a lot of other people are. And being able to remind them to be silly is grossly, grossly, grossly uncomfortable. Because the thing about our brains is that anything different is considered dangerous, and that can include [00:03:00] fun, it can include silliness.
And so here I am as kind of this contrarian personification of that , and so the book is definitely in alignment with that. So I sent you a copy of the book and the first chapter is called Tripping Over your Own Trap: Navigating the Minefield of Self-Sabotage.
But in the author's copy that I sent you ahead of time, it originally was called Stepping on your Own Dick: Navigating the Minefield of Self-Sabotage, and you were like, holy, holy, holy.
Stacey: I was like, no, no. And I needed to do a lot of lobbying on the note because you were like, no, no, it really encapsulates what I feel.
But I was like, I think people might not get past the title to hear what you have to say.
Kirsten: You're like, this is chapter one, woman.
Stacey: Yeah. And I even did some market research on some other physicians, I asked quite a few. And they all felt like that was probably offputting as the very first thing they read in your book.
Kirsten: Yeah. So here we are, it's now tripping over your own [00:04:00] trap. And that's what a lot of the book is about, right? It's the way that we just get in our own way. And it's often ironic to people that they find out that not only do I cuss with a lot of F-bombs, but they're like, wait, this woman loves herself some Jesus?
And I totally do. And so one of the other things that I'm also known for saying is, it's amazing what God will bring into your life when you get outta your own way. Which is another variation of the 'stop stepping on your own dick'. So, you know, just to give you the full spectrum of my Muppet tree.
There we have it.
Stacey: I love that we're really digging in on the Muppet reference. If you didn't hear our last podcast. What happened was- Kirsten decided to get some insight from Claude about herself. So her AI agent decided that she was like a Muppet and so a Muppet coach.
But I loved it. I was like, so it is now permanently part of the intro.
Kirsten: Yeah.
Stacey: So we've talked a little bit about the language, but this book isn't about the language. That might be the way that you express yourself, but it's not what the themes of the book are about. [00:05:00] So while it is about divorce, it's also about really coming into yourself. I would love it if you could tell me a little bit about resilience and reinvention and sort of how they motivated you to write this book.
Kirsten: The book is really about anytime you get put into this fresh start category, whether it's voluntary or involuntary, and really challenging the stories that we've carried into today. And which of those stories we can just toss out the window and call out as BS.
How do we treat ourselves with some compassion? How do we give ourselves the same energy we give our ride-or-die BFFs? How do we catch ourselves? Because I think we all self-sabotage, but part of this book's purpose is to help you identify when you're doing it, when you realize that the trap has snapped and you're like, oh, I'm doing it again.
And so, it's not a character flaw. It really is just kind of a security system. I wanna make [00:06:00] sure that people aren't embracing the shame that comes so naturally and easily to us, and instead giving ourselves the grace of: when you know better, you can do better, and stepping into that light.
So, what is the new identity? And if I was that person that I wiggle my nose, wish I was, how would they be showing up? How would they be thinking about this right in this very moment?
Stacey: I love the Bewitched reference, by the way. For those of us who are too young, not me, the wiggle your nose is what Samantha used to do on Bewitched, which my mom and I watched a million times, unrelated to the book. I wonder if you could tell us a little bit, though. I can think of lots of examples in academic medicine where people feel like a failure. So I don't think this is just about divorce. I love that you're extending it to any time that you feel like you haven't achieved.
Really good examples might be your research didn't work, or your promotion is delayed, or you didn't get a leadership role, but how do you do it? What do you do at that moment? I'm getting divorced. I didn't get the promotion. Like, what do you start with after the, oh my gosh, I can't believe it [00:07:00] moment?
Kirsten: I think that it starts with gratitude. It starts with joy. It starts with what feels good. That's very counterintuitive to a lot of the questions that most of the physicians that I work with would ever have in their original personal questions. The idea of not being enough, feeling invisible in our own lives. The idea of playing out the stories that other people have put on us, the filters that our parents or our partners that didn't see our light. How do we choose our new self right now?
Stacey: I like the idea that if you don't let go of those things from the past, you can't find the great things that are waiting for you in the future.
And I think that's part of the theme that I got from what you talked about in this book too, is you've gotta actually take the things that do not serve you and pivot to the things that can serve you in the future. Tell me how you got there. What was [00:08:00] it in your own journey that helped you have that oh, yes, moment?
Kirsten: I wrote an article on LinkedIn this past week that really resonated with a bunch of people and I was grateful for, but I was talking about how I got a lighthouse tattoo. And when I started my own company and I had to pick the nice title for myself to send in my company foundation documents with the state of Indiana, I picked Chief Lighthouse Operator. Because to me the lighthouse is such a perfect symbol of setting boundaries. When my marriage was failing and I just felt like I kept hitting the same wall over and over again, I went and I got a lighthouse tattoo. I came home and I showed it to him and I said, this is the tattoo that I got that represents us.
I am tired of being your lifeboat that gets drug underwater every single time crap happens. So I love the idea that we invite ourselves to be [00:09:00] a lighthouse where we can welcome others into a better version of themselves, or we can shine light on what's so amazing and special about each of us, and we can do all of that standing tall. Standing strong, without being threatened, like a lifeboat, which will just never endure. I think so many of us have our lives set up where we are lifeboats to our children, to our coworkers, to our spouses, to our careers, to our dogs, any of that. And knowing that if we can figure out how to change the foundation, the rest of it will actually fall into place much more easily.
Stacey: I like the lifeboat analogy and it makes me think about giving a man the ability to fish instead of handing him a fish. As you are helping people find those identities, because this has really, I think, influenced how you work with people, the coaching that you're able to do, and that neuroplasticity path work.
How do those fit together?
Kirsten: Well, there's the knowing-doing [00:10:00] gap that's crucial. People, they don't fail because they don't have the information, but because they have an unconscious commitment to staying comfortable. Just because even if it's crappy, it's comfortable, you know it, and it's familiar and your brain also perceives that as safe.
And so trying to figure out a tweak to that that has truth in it, but that serves you better, is always where I start. Like, oh, I'm saying I'm not enough. It's obvious that I'm not enough in this relationship or this career, or this pair of jeans. I'm too much for this pair of jeans.
But what is it that is true? And look for those bridges of truth so that you can say, oh, maybe then this is true. Is it possible that I'm enough for the right kind of person? Is it possible that my butt will look good in jeans if I just go up a size? There are so many ways that we put [00:11:00] this equals that and that doesn't necessarily mean truth.
Thoughts and feelings are not the same as truth. And for us to be able to segment those and see them as two different things is huge. I'm sure you see that a lot in academic medicine when people think, oh, in order to do academic medicine, I have to put all this other stuff aside. And yet that is just not true.
Can you give an example of that?
Stacey: I think some of it to me is the focus. Like you talk about what does success mean to me now, at the point where you were having to re-look at your life, and I think that happens with academic physicians all the time. So it may be that you were like, Hey, I've been spending my time on a lot of different things, but this is the one thing that gives me joy, that makes me happy.
These are the relationships, and I think relationships are key regardless of whether we're talking about medicine, job, personal life. Building those social networks, I think, is probably one of those big things that you can do to move forward and to build joy. It felt like it was a big thing in your book too, in terms of how you rebuild your life moving forward.
Kirsten: A lot of it is [00:12:00] learning how to do things that are consistent. So if you know that you want to do something, the 'shoulds' can take over our lives. And if we know something we should be doing consistently, are you putting it on your calendar consistently? Are you scheduling that? If your relationship is important, like you were saying with your marriage when we were talking off camera that, that you realized that you wanted to really level up your commitment and how you're showing up. And you come up with different solutions, you come up with different answers when you come into it with that different energy.
Stacey: The shoulds are always a problem for me. I know Kirsten does not like to be known as a coach. She's more likely to be known as a Muppet Ninja than as a coach, but I am fine with being known as a coach.
And one of the things in the coaching world is anytime somebody says they should be doing something, it feels like a trigger because it's usually about somebody else's expectations and not your expectations or your interests. One of the reasons you may not be doing that thing on your calendar is because the thing you should be doing isn't something you [00:13:00] want to be doing.
It doesn't align with your interests or it doesn't align with your values. So the shoulds always make me worry. I feel like in relationships, whether it's like, Hey, I should be talking to this mentor, but I don't really connect with them. Or I should be getting out there and start dating again or whatever the arena is in which you're doing it.
Anytime you're thinking you should, I think there's an opportunity to say, whose voice is that? Like you and I had a different conversation about coaching clients. We were talking about two different coaching clients, and they were both hearing the voice of somebody else: a parent, a significant person in their life who was still guiding what they were doing decades later and having a negative influence. It's not that they gave bad advice necessarily, it's that the advice wasn't in alignment with what they needed or what they wanted to do next. And so if you're hearing somebody else's voice in your head telling you what you should do, you really need to make sure, is this what I wanna do?
Is this what success looks like for me? Is this what the next relationship should be? Because that to me is one of those big issues, like don't get stuck in the shoulds.
Kirsten: [00:14:00] It's toxic and it is sabotage, but it's perpetuating somebody else's story. It just eliminates that. How efficient that they don't even have to be here, and you're giving them your power.
What a gift for yourself. Like with my client, that your mom suddenly is telling you all this stuff. Her realization that her mother was telling her that she wasn't gonna be able to accomplish X. That was such a gift to be like, oh, and if she was standing here, would you really give her that much power?
That's why I think the mindset stuff can be kind of toxic. When we talk about mindset, we're usually looking at the little itty bitty piece of ice that's hanging out on top that we're like, oh, yeah, yeah.
But if your nervous system is hardwired underneath it to have all these other beliefs that we have no consciousness of, then how do we do that? And with me, we focus on the play, we focus on the evidence, we look at the proof. That's why my whole system is called the Neuro-Proof Narrative Quest [00:15:00] because we are like, well, it's my system.
The neuro proof really is giving our brains new data to say, Hey, we can actually do this. And the narrative is all about the stories. AI is helpful, but where we can take that power and leverage it is going to be in story. How are the stories that we're connecting, that we're creating, that we're fostering, that we're just making up that have no truth to it? How are they forming what's out there?
Especially in this political environment, there's so much drama and so much power in the divide and the awfulness of it. And yet, a lot of that is a story that's being written by people who are in power, that are just little- like Muppets: great, puppets: no. They are out there and they're pulling strings just to make sure that kind of chaos keeps going. So whatever you believe in politically, I'm sure that there is this understanding that in the story we're telling ourself, we wanna go back to the facts. And from [00:16:00] there we decide what the thoughts and feelings are. And I love that Brooke Castillo framework that I also mentioned in the book. It's that C-T-F-A-R model, where we have the circumstances- those are not debatable. I have silver hair, you know, that is a fact. But the thoughts and the feelings that we have about that are completely different.
For some people, me being a bigger bodied woman would mean that I am lazy or I don't love myself, or that I eat like crap. And yet, I don't have to take on those stories. I know the relationship that I have and that I love my body and I love celebrating it for what it can do despite my chronic illness issues that just make my life fun sometimes.
So again, anytime that we are saying things that are not rooted in fact, we can really challenge those thoughts that are assigned to it. We can really challenge those feelings that we assign to it. And that is how we change the actions that we take, and we change the results that we end up with.
Stacey: I know we're getting to the end of our time. [00:17:00] The one other point I really wanted to throw out here, because I do also love that C-T-F-A-R framework. I really liked the idea of rebuilding community intentionally. I think kids are so great at it, right? Like, I'm gonna go make a friend. They'll literally just declare it and go do it. You know, I'm 56 years old and I'm like, gosh, when's the last time I went out and was like, I'm gonna go make a friend.
I went to a cocktail party at a conference this past weekend. It took me 30 minutes to convince myself to go to the conference. Because I even kind of knew some people in the room, but I felt like I was crashing somebody else's party because they all knew each other well and I didn't. And if I had just said I'm gonna, and this is what I do, I'm gonna meet one person, I'm gonna make one good relationship.
I'm an introvert, not great at meeting everybody in the room. Once I know a lot of people, I'm great at extending, but it's what I have to tell myself every time. I'm gonna meet one person and make a real connection with one person. That's how I can start. So your comment about rebuilding community intentionally, or this theme that goes throughout your book, I really love.
So if you can give us one really good tip on [00:18:00] how to do that as we walk out the door, because I think we could all use that. Whether you are going through a big transition now or not, we can all use more connection. I think your comment about politics or other things, if we could all just connect more, I think that's gonna help us all. So I'd love a tip.
Kirsten: First I wanna point out that it might surprise a lot of people that I am not a self-described extrovert. I hate big events. I hate large gatherings. What I love are the one-on-one connections, and I think that is true for most of us. So if that's how you see large events, as just an opportunity for a lot of really cool one-on-one connections, then it becomes maybe a little bit safer.
The other piece that I nodded to earlier is that we just need to assume that people love making other people feel good. Like who doesn't feel better when they get asked about themselves or get to talk about something that's going on in their lives? If all I have to do is go in and get one person to talk about themselves and make them feel special, I love [00:19:00] that. And so maybe it's not about us going in and being comfortable.
Anytime I get stuck in an anxiety loop or a depression loop, the quickest way for me to hijack that is for me to figure out how to help somebody. And you do that too with your business, both of us do. We both have a 'help one person every day' core pillar of our business community. And that's because it elevates the energy, it changes the attraction. So whether it's making a friend, or going on a date, or even just going to the movies by yourself, whatever. If you just see it like, is it possible that I can make somebody else's day better by inviting them in and letting them know that I see them.
Stacey: I love that. That wraps up today's conversation. Divorced After 40 gave us a lot to think about, not just in terms of personal reinvention, but how we can navigate change and growth. We hope you took away a few practical insights you can use right now, whether it's protecting your time, or reframing a setback, or building a new community.
Thanks for spending time with us and be sure to subscribe on whatever you listen to [00:20:00] your podcasts on. Which I hope is Apple Podcasts because as of right now, that's the only one we have successfully uploaded to. And don't miss our next episode. Please share this with a colleague or friend who could use a little encouragement on their own journey.
Until next time, keep showing up for yourself and for the work that matters most.
Kirsten: Go team!
