Don_t Believe Everything You Think by Joseph Nguyen EDITED
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Kirsten Bombdiggity: Welcome back to Your New Release Stories Shifts and the Books that Change Us. And this week we're gonna talk about the amazing, wonderful book, Don't Believe Everything You Think by Joseph Nguyen. This is actually, we did a trial run just a few minutes ago where we and so I'm having my own thoughts about like that, as a podcaster, what does it mean when you do almost a whole episode and then realize, oh yeah, we weren't recording, so hopefully this will go a little bit more smoother and a little bit tighter, and we'll just have incredible aha moments,
Stacey Ishman: but it was a great practice run,
Kirsten Bombdiggity: right? Yeah. So tell me what you love. This was a book that I told you we had to read and you like willingly did it and carried it around to all of your different spots that you traveled around for work.
So what'd you think of the book?
Stacey Ishman: Okay. So first of all, did we say the name of the book?
Kirsten Bombdiggity: Yes.
Stacey Ishman: Okay.
Kirsten Bombdiggity: Don't believe everything you think
Stacey Ishman: I [00:01:00] loved this book. And I think part of that is because, my identity is somebody who is a big thinker and I spend a lot of time on mental tasks like my wife, and I'll go to her to-do list and hers is all like doing stuff and running all over the place.
And mine like requires you to sit in one place and think through things and check off mental tasks. And so I get pride in the idea of doing that. And in fact, when I looked at this book, one of the things I talked about was high achievers often mistake overthinking for insight, and I absolutely always was like, oh, I have to listen to these thoughts.
They mean something. They're like, and I do believe my subconscious brain does a lot of work when I'm not consciously thinking through things, but I didn't realize it's also sending me red herrings that I am like shifting, going down the rabbit hole for no reason, and that it's trying to protect me in some ways.
But some of these things are not true. It's not the dinosaur that's coming out and it's gonna kill me. So me perseverating on whatever I think is happening right now isn't always that useful and that letting go of it is much more [00:02:00] effective. And so just the fundamental thought, my thoughts are not necessarily true is honestly one of the primary things we learn in coaching world.
And so it was in great alignment for what we know now. But it would've been a crazy thing for me to have read two years ago. I'm not even sure I would've accepted it two years ago. So what made you what made you recommend it?
Kirsten Bombdiggity: The last couple conferences that I've gone to, instead of taking business cards, I've taken these bracelets that I had made.
And one of the things on it, it says thoughts and feelings aren't facts. And that has been like the foundation of coaching for me and people have stories in their heads and even that. Is offensive to some people. And I know that if you've done the work, you can stay emotionally neutral for that.
But all of us know people that are negative and then they'll say, that's just how they're hardwired and you just wanna be like, dude, how much effort does it take to just think so icky about everything? And so for me. It really is [00:03:00] just trying to learn how to stay curious and how to reframe everything so that the book really talks about just listening and staying open and being curious and like a scientist rather than just assuming everything that runs through your brain is the truth.
Stacey Ishman: Yeah. We talked about it five minutes ago when we did this podcast the first time, but. One of the things I actually give as an example, and I think it did then, was I talk about a really quick one so that people can understand this. And for me it was, I went to lunch, the person I'm supposed to have lunch with didn't show up.
And my thought is, oh my gosh, they're so rude. They don't respect me. They didn't even call me. And I'm mad at them. They're mad at me. Yeah. And so the action is we don't get together and I don't reach out and I don't see what happened. And we never, a relationship deteriorates.
And the alternative is they don't show up for lunch. And I'm like, oh my gosh. Kirsten must've been so busy and she's having a terrible day and I should send her flowers. She probably would love that. And I'll call and see if we can follow up next week. And that's an extreme version.
I don't send a lot of flowers to people [00:04:00] who ditch me for lunch,
Kirsten Bombdiggity: but you're welcome to.
It's just,
Stacey Ishman: anytime. But I do think like the, I didn't have any new information, I just had the opportunity to think about something differently and one, a good, and one made me feel bad. And they're both equally plausible, right?
That you had just had, you forgot, or you had a terrible day. It's probably not even plausible that you don't respect me 'cause you set up a lunch date with me. So you go to this super negative thing that's not even that real. And so that was one of those that I think really helps when you see there was no difference in what I knew about the situation.
It was just difference in what I thought about it. And so it really gets to his point that thinking is the source of suffering. And that one was hard for me because again, I define myself as a thinker. So thinking is the source of suffering meant like. I am
Kirsten Bombdiggity: You're a professional sufferer.
Stacey Ishman: Yeah. I'm like, am I making myself feel bad when I don't need to?
Yeah. But it also is empowering that I don't have to make myself feel bad or I have the tools to shift when I do feel bad.
Kirsten Bombdiggity: Yeah.
Stacey Ishman: So how do you frame it for [00:05:00] people?
Kirsten Bombdiggity: I think one of the ways I love that he did in this book is that we are not our thoughts. We are the observers of our thoughts.
Stacey Ishman: Yeah.
Kirsten Bombdiggity: And so just trying to figure out like. Which of these are actually beliefs that are limiting me? Which ones are the way of getting in, the way of having joy, of having fun, of thinking things, everything could work out. There are so many of us that are walking around with completely fried nervous systems where we don't understand the difference between running 10 minutes late for an appointment versus a lion eating our face.
And so those thoughts. Can be completely self-destructive and contagious, and we are always looking for evidence to support our thoughts. So if my thought is my partner doesn't love me or respect me, I'm gonna be looking for evidence of that. Whereas if I'm like, man, they just think that I am beautiful and kind and that I'm the best cook like in Indiana whatever, [00:06:00] like that, I'm going to find very different evidence when I'm looking for something that serves me better.
Stacey Ishman: Yeah.
I also like the idea when it says you don't overcome your negative thoughts, you stop giving them authority.
Kirsten Bombdiggity: Yes.
Stacey Ishman: I love the idea. You don't have to just get rid of your negative thoughts. Like I think people get frustrated 'cause they try to do this and they're like I'm not gonna have any more negative thoughts.
And none of us are gonna be successful at that. And he even says that they're not all gonna go away.
Kirsten Bombdiggity: Yes.
Stacey Ishman: You just stop believing that they're true. So you can look at those and be like, okay, is there really a lion coming around the corner? Probably not, if I don't do whatever I'm supposed to do, does it mean that nobody's gonna respect me anymore?
Probably not. They're just gonna recognize I was late, or I missed it, or I forgot, or whatever. The truth is, I was late to a meeting today.
Kirsten Bombdiggity: Yeah.
Stacey Ishman: And I messed the person and said, I'm so sorry I'm, stuck in a clinical situation. I'll be there in seven minutes, but if I hadn't shown up and she'd created her own story.
Kirsten Bombdiggity: Yep.
Stacey Ishman: Wouldn't have been, I was, I'm so sorry. I was stuck in the, or it would've been. She doesn't respect me and she didn't show up. And we have the opportunity to change those. I also like [00:07:00] the idea that if you can't think of at least a neutral thought to change it to, you can ask somebody else.
Kirsten Bombdiggity: Yeah.
Stacey Ishman: I give people thoughts they can borrow all the time. I know you do. So tell me how you teach people to, to shift that thought. If they're like, I'm stuck.
Kirsten Bombdiggity: I'll look for the heavily charged words. So when people say the words never or always, or would, or could, or should. Should. Yeah those are evil words, like those don't ever serve us.
They're rarely rooted in positivity, and so if we can figure out how to set that aside and just be like, yeah, there, there are times when we aren't showing up as our favorite self. But so if we can say, if someone says. Like I'm always late, okay, tell me a time when you weren't late.
Help them find evidence of the obvious that is out there so that they are poking holes in their own story. 'cause it's very different to say, I'm creative, that's gonna hit very different when my brain hears me say those words. Then when my brain hears, you say, Kirsten, you're creative.
[00:08:00] It doesn't land the same way. And so oftentimes when I am doing like work with a client. I'll have them try and figure out who's your number one cheerleader in life? Who's the person who's always gonna say no matter what, you were in the right. I don't care who started it you were in the right, and I hate them just for you.
Like that. And so if you can have them take on that role when you're figuring out how to problem solve and talk to yourself, then we can start to like even just hearing those, you start to rewire the neural pathways and we can write different stories. Let's write stories that actually serve us.
Stacey Ishman: Yeah. He also talks about how creativity and confidence start with some silence. So if you can just tell the stories to stop for a few minutes. Like if you probably, I know you've spoken on stages. I've spoken on stages and there's so many people who walk in the room and they're like, oh, this is gonna be scary and it's gonna be hard.
And it's scary and hard 'cause they just told themselves it was, versus I could connect with somebody, I might learn something, there could be great [00:09:00] questions. I think the question piece, a lot of academic physicians give presentations and they're all worried about the questions and you don't even need to know the answer to the questions, to have a good conversation.
Somebody's asking you a question 'cause they probably have a thought you could learn from their thought and let 'em know you don't know or provide what you do know and say, this is a great idea. We should both look at it's just an opener for a conversation. And if you walk in the room with the thought that I'm starting a conversation instead of I have to be the authority of something.
It changes how you can approach it and how much fun you can have. And I know the fun and the play is something that you have really taught me can make our lives so much better. So I love the idea you don't have to force the solutions.
Kirsten Bombdiggity: But yet many of us, especially people who pick high achieving careers, like they have been taught that.
The strength is in the analysis, the thing, it's in the strategy, it's in the problem solving rather than just being, and you get some more of those like human doings instead of human beings. And so just noticing thought patterns without trying to [00:10:00] change them is also a really nice first step. Oh, my first thought was how, that was my fault.
My first thought was to apologize that I was late instead of saying, thank you for waiting for me.
Stacey Ishman: Yeah.
Kirsten Bombdiggity: Like anytime that we are like, and that's it that I wrote an article on LinkedIn about that. Like we people say, I'm sorry, way too much. When what they really need to be saying is just thank you.
Just thanks for waiting or thanks for your patience. Or it isn't necessarily thanks for giving this a go with me. Thanks for trying to podcast with me, Stacey. This is fun.
Stacey Ishman: And that's actually a really important one for people who have clinical practice where they see patients.
It is a hundred percent what we're taught and how to actually even make other people feel better about the situations instead of saying, I'm so sorry about a negative 'cause, say thank you for the positive. And they feel like they've given you a gift and you start off in a very different position in that conversation.
So I love that analogy. I know we talked a little bit about what we do for pattern interruption. I oftentimes will focus on, listening to the [00:11:00] sound of my fingers, touching, feeling the ridges trying to feel like hear the sounds in the room. And I do that with my hand next to me so I don't look goofy.
But I do that for 30 to 60 seconds, not very long. Six breaths. And long enough for me to focus on the breath, focus on the sound, focus on the feeling, and then realize oh, I left whatever I was in for the minute, and I came back. I know you are literally over there with the things that you sometimes use.
Kirsten Bombdiggity: They've done a lot of science studying play and how it really just fast tracks when you're rewire. Like you cannot be anxious when you're actively playing.
You cannot be worrying about it or analyzing, but like it's, and but your learning curve just shrinks. And so if you're trying to take up a new habit, if you can figure out how to couple that with music or dance or anything that just, you know, just reminds you of a time, when you liked hanging out with your friends when you were a kid.
It's amazing to me this last time I spoke at the DEI conference in Washington State and it was a Zoom and it was online I [00:12:00] was a nervous wreck 'cause I thought there was just gonna be a couple hundred people there and then there were like 3000 people there and holy moly.
What I did was I actually just put on all the songs that I shook what my mama gave me to at prom, like for 10 minutes before I went on stage just so that I could break the pattern. Get in a different space, remember what that was like to be, having this wonderfully fun night with friends and family and taking pictures and whatnot.
And so any of that time we can, with my coaching clients, like I love to send them surprise mail, just 'cause it we have scratch off tickets, we have raffle tickets that we do where they can earn coffee cups and, or Amazon gift cards or whatever. And a lot of that is just because that play is just a way of.
Making it more fun. It's so much easier than therapy, okay.
Stacey Ishman: I will tell anybody who wants coaching with me, I have never given a scratch off ticket, but I can, give you joy other ways. But if you're looking for scratch offs.
Kirsten Bombdiggity: Yeah.
Stacey Ishman: Anything else you want to say as a last minute take home for [00:13:00] people?
Kirsten Bombdiggity: I just, I think that this is a wonderful book and I think that when you take the lesson, one of the things that I got out of this last training that I did down in Nashville, with Michael McRay was, he said, don't ever steal anybody else's epiphany.
And so this is a great book, but if you feel like somebody could really benefit from it 'cause they just get lost in a negative tornado, maybe give 'em the book, ask 'em if they wanna talk about it or whatever. But you have to meet. People where they are at. 'cause if they can't even get, wrap their brain around you're not, like that, just, that can just add more tension and negativity to the relationship.
Stacey Ishman: And I totally agree with you. And I also think if you can do nothing else, just in the moment in what you're feeling, suffering in whatever way that might be, whether that's anxiety or sadness or ruminating or spinning, just give yourself the opportunity to think. Is there another thought I could have?
What's causing me to feel this way? Just try it once. I think you'll [00:14:00] find that maybe there's some stories and if you don't have stories, ask somebody else to help you give a neutral story. It's sometimes it's just so much easier for you to help somebody else and have somebody else give you that thought.
And ask a friend. Ask your mom, ask whoever can give you those. Your kids are gonna have a million words or your dog if they're in on the information. But thank you all for joining us today. We hope that you will join us for your new release on an ongoing basis. So please subscribe or follow in whatever format you're watching or listening to this in.
And we really appreciate you joining us as we talk about stories shifts and the books that change us.
